Hi guys,Lets discuss the topic of "Atheism" openly!Who is the atheist? Why do they have such belief and why do they deny the existence of God "Allah?Do they have evidences for their thoughts ?Francis Bacon,the famous philospher, has rightly said :"alittle knowledge of science makes man an atheist , but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God.
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Now think : If a new object which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before is shown to any person ,..who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this new unknown object ?
I thought it's obvious: An imaginary being created out of the human imagination. Just like other much older myths (Zeus, Jupiter, Isis...)
Human being have always had the need to feel 'protected' from their fears, and the need to find an answer for all these things that can't be explained easily. Just imagine the primitive caveman, what he could think when he saw a rainbow, a lightning, or when he felt an earthquake. Now we know all these phenomenons are pretty normal and they have a logical explanation. Nowadays, any kid knows why and how rain happens. But for the primitive man these were 'magical' things, because he couldn't find any other logical explanation at that moment.
That's how the idea of a 'god' came to the human being's mind. Whatever anthropologist can tell you about this.
I don't get what you mean with your question about how to explain something new... The world still is full of new things and species that nobody have ever seen (and even more the universe). When 'something new' is discovered, you just have to observe and study that thing, to get to know 'how it works' as you said. That's what scientists do.
But I guess you're talkin' about your dear holy book. Founders of religions just wrote down the bases of his theories, so they could give a book of 'instructions' to instill their ideas to other people... that's pretty normal. I can write a fairy tale too, where the main character is the 'narrator' and believe all what I wrote as if it was god who told me himself to write it. But just because I believe in that thing that I created myself, it doesn't mean it's 'real'. It's just the 'world' I created and that I made others to believe as well.
Look, this is kind of complicated for me because I feel like if i'm trying to 'convince' to a 5 years old kid that all these fairy tales he obsessively reads are not the 'real world'. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're like a kid, this is just a feeling. And I don't like because I'm not really here for trying to 'convince' anyone of anything!
Here you asked what is Atheism and why we don't believe in god and I'm giving you my reasons. I don't really wanna get into a nonsense discussion where I feel like I'm talkin' to a wall, because no matter what I say... Even if I mention theories from the brightest human minds like Einstein, Hawking, Darwin... You're gonna tell me that it's not 'logic' anyway! How am I gonna discuss with someone who is gonna call 'nonsense' to the Darwin's theory of evolution of species?!
You don't really want to get to understand my point of view. You don't give a shit. You just want to let out a bunch of Quran's verses to let me know that your god is everything. So ok, good for you. But I don't need you to come here to ask me what I think then.
"When they say "I'll pray for you", give that wonderful reply: "I'll think for you". - Richard Dawkins.
You guys have no a single logic evidece ; your opinions is based on some theories that could be right and wrong . Or maybe on some scientific principles that the Quran reveled before the creation of human beings .
Iwill start by saying some facts mentioned in the Quran that was sent to the prophet , and we know that there was no science . The Quran is full of those , I will mention some :
At the time when the Quran was revealed, people thought the world is flat, there are several options for the shape of the earth . It could be triangular,quadrangular,pentagonal, hexagonal,etc etc. Lets assume there areabout30 different options for the shape of the earth . The Quran rightly says it is spherical .
If it was a guess , the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30 . Do you think this is an accident ?
2.The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light . The Quran says it is a reflected right . So what do you think. ?
You say that 'religion is based upon some evidences that nobody can deny'... ???!!! Well, for me there is not ANY SINGLE LOGIC EVIDENCE about the existence of any god. The only thing religion is based on is the SUPERSTITION of a bunch of illiteral and fanatic people who lived a couple of milleniums ago.
So this is the situation:
Religion -> based on superstition
Atheism -> based on Science and facts.
Which one is more reliable? Well, for me it's pretty obvious. I can give you this analogy: While you place your trust in astrology; I place mine in astronomy.
I'm sorry if this might offend you, but I really think that the world doesn't need religion anymore. Religions were maybe necessary once, in the very old times of human being history, where there were no laws and the civilizations needed some basic rules (oh btw, all these monotheistic religions just copied the bases of other more ancient beliefs, like the roman, egyptian and greek's myths) But nowadays, Science explains with facts and proofs all what religion consider 'magic', 'miraculous', 'god's will', or whatever you call it.
I can't explain here now every single thing that religion said and scientists, historians and anthropologists proved to be false, distorted or 'manipulated', because then this reply would be endless. But just for giving you some 'notes', I can tell you that one of the most popular scientists, which name is Stephen Hawking, explained how is posible the creation of matter by itself. This means that we don't need any 'god' for creating anything out of nothing. The universe explains itself.
It's also very important the last week's confirmation about the gravitational waves that have been detected. This will allow scientist to see how was the primitive universe and everything before the big bang, among other important things. This means that still there are a lot of things to study and discover. We can't know everything, that's right... But everything related to religion has been already more than exceeded and explained. Now the human knowledge goes further, and any 10 years old kid knows much more about the natural order than any of the founders of religion.
If you really want to know about atheism, because you are sincerely curious about it, and not just because you want to 'prove us wrong', then there are lot of scientists, philosophers, and historians who can explain this better than me (Nietzsche, Voltaire, Bakunin, Sartre, Hitchens, Dawkins, Krauss...)
I also wrote a blog post here for those who are interested to read about the No-religion: http://my.englishclub.com/profiles/blogs/reading-about-religion There I quoted the words of Christopher Hitchens about what is the atheism, as you asked here, maybe this english author can explain you better than me:
“Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.”
I hope this can answer your question about if we have 'evidences'... Yes. We have them all.
You just explained very well what I felt reading the way Amal raised this topic... but I'm already so used to this kind of things! I also like to think that religious people don't want to offend and they only have a clumsy way for addressing to other people's theories; that's usually just because of lack of information or different cultural background, but not real bad will. I hope so.
Anyway, I admire how tactful and diplomatic you are. I wish I could be like that, but I'm afraid that topics like this one 'touches my nerves' :S
Every religion, is based upon some evidences that nobody can deny . If someone had posted what you've paraphrased about Islam or any other religion , surely I would not have been confused to their opinions . Because their thoughts or even acts don't belong to Islam or any religion , but I will be discussing what I know about my own religion freely .
You described those who do believe with short tempered? How come ?
You should describe those who have no proofs for their own thoughts with short tempered.
Hi; I think my feeling is that when you say 'they' you are saying not me... So how open is the conversation. I have great respect for all religions, beliefs and spiritualities. As an atheist myself my belief is based wholly on fact. There is an abundance of evidence. Religion is based on 'faith' a belief system not sustained by fact. I like to view the concept of 'God' as a sense of humanity that links us all as humanbeings.
Replies
thank you for replying.
Can you tell me what is your definition of God ?
Now think : If a new object which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before is shown to any person ,..who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this new unknown object ?
What is 'god' for me?
I thought it's obvious: An imaginary being created out of the human imagination. Just like other much older myths (Zeus, Jupiter, Isis...)
Human being have always had the need to feel 'protected' from their fears, and the need to find an answer for all these things that can't be explained easily.
Just imagine the primitive caveman, what he could think when he saw a rainbow, a lightning, or when he felt an earthquake. Now we know all these phenomenons are pretty normal and they have a logical explanation. Nowadays, any kid knows why and how rain happens. But for the primitive man these were 'magical' things, because he couldn't find any other logical explanation at that moment.
That's how the idea of a 'god' came to the human being's mind. Whatever anthropologist can tell you about this.
I don't get what you mean with your question about how to explain something new... The world still is full of new things and species that nobody have ever seen (and even more the universe). When 'something new' is discovered, you just have to observe and study that thing, to get to know 'how it works' as you said. That's what scientists do.
But I guess you're talkin' about your dear holy book. Founders of religions just wrote down the bases of his theories, so they could give a book of 'instructions' to instill their ideas to other people... that's pretty normal.
I can write a fairy tale too, where the main character is the 'narrator' and believe all what I wrote as if it was god who told me himself to write it. But just because I believe in that thing that I created myself, it doesn't mean it's 'real'. It's just the 'world' I created and that I made others to believe as well.
Look, this is kind of complicated for me because I feel like if i'm trying to 'convince' to a 5 years old kid that all these fairy tales he obsessively reads are not the 'real world'. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you're like a kid, this is just a feeling. And I don't like because I'm not really here for trying to 'convince' anyone of anything!
Here you asked what is Atheism and why we don't believe in god and I'm giving you my reasons. I don't really wanna get into a nonsense discussion where I feel like I'm talkin' to a wall, because no matter what I say... Even if I mention theories from the brightest human minds like Einstein, Hawking, Darwin... You're gonna tell me that it's not 'logic' anyway! How am I gonna discuss with someone who is gonna call 'nonsense' to the Darwin's theory of evolution of species?!
You don't really want to get to understand my point of view. You don't give a shit. You just want to let out a bunch of Quran's verses to let me know that your god is everything. So ok, good for you. But I don't need you to come here to ask me what I think then.
"When they say "I'll pray for you", give that wonderful reply: "I'll think for you". - Richard Dawkins.
Iwill start by saying some facts mentioned in the Quran that was sent to the prophet , and we know that there was no science . The Quran is full of those , I will mention some :
At the time when the Quran was revealed, people thought the world is flat, there are several options for the shape of the earth . It could be triangular,quadrangular,pentagonal, hexagonal,etc etc. Lets assume there areabout30 different options for the shape of the earth . The Quran rightly says it is spherical .
If it was a guess , the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30 . Do you think this is an accident ?
2.The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light . The Quran says it is a reflected right . So what do you think. ?
There are plenty of evidences to share ..
You say that 'religion is based upon some evidences that nobody can deny'... ???!!!
Well, for me there is not ANY SINGLE LOGIC EVIDENCE about the existence of any god. The only thing religion is based on is the SUPERSTITION of a bunch of illiteral and fanatic people who lived a couple of milleniums ago.
So this is the situation:
Religion -> based on superstition
Atheism -> based on Science and facts.
Which one is more reliable? Well, for me it's pretty obvious. I can give you this analogy: While you place your trust in astrology; I place mine in astronomy.
I'm sorry if this might offend you, but I really think that the world doesn't need religion anymore. Religions were maybe necessary once, in the very old times of human being history, where there were no laws and the civilizations needed some basic rules (oh btw, all these monotheistic religions just copied the bases of other more ancient beliefs, like the roman, egyptian and greek's myths) But nowadays, Science explains with facts and proofs all what religion consider 'magic', 'miraculous', 'god's will', or whatever you call it.
I can't explain here now every single thing that religion said and scientists, historians and anthropologists proved to be false, distorted or 'manipulated', because then this reply would be endless. But just for giving you some 'notes', I can tell you that one of the most popular scientists, which name is Stephen Hawking, explained how is posible the creation of matter by itself. This means that we don't need any 'god' for creating anything out of nothing. The universe explains itself.
It's also very important the last week's confirmation about the gravitational waves that have been detected. This will allow scientist to see how was the primitive universe and everything before the big bang, among other important things. This means that still there are a lot of things to study and discover. We can't know everything, that's right... But everything related to religion has been already more than exceeded and explained. Now the human knowledge goes further, and any 10 years old kid knows much more about the natural order than any of the founders of religion.
If you really want to know about atheism, because you are sincerely curious about it, and not just because you want to 'prove us wrong', then there are lot of scientists, philosophers, and historians who can explain this better than me (Nietzsche, Voltaire, Bakunin, Sartre, Hitchens, Dawkins, Krauss...)
I also wrote a blog post here for those who are interested to read about the No-religion: http://my.englishclub.com/profiles/blogs/reading-about-religion
There I quoted the words of Christopher Hitchens about what is the atheism, as you asked here, maybe this english author can explain you better than me:
“Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.”
I hope this can answer your question about if we have 'evidences'...
Yes. We have them all.
Eva!
I LOVE the way you are! :D
You just explained very well what I felt reading the way Amal raised this topic... but I'm already so used to this kind of things! I also like to think that religious people don't want to offend and they only have a clumsy way for addressing to other people's theories; that's usually just because of lack of information or different cultural background, but not real bad will. I hope so.
Anyway, I admire how tactful and diplomatic you are. I wish I could be like that, but I'm afraid that topics like this one 'touches my nerves' :S
I'll do my best for keeping cool!
Every religion, is based upon some evidences that nobody can deny . If someone had posted what you've paraphrased about Islam or any other religion , surely I would not have been confused to their opinions . Because their thoughts or even acts don't belong to Islam or any religion , but I will be discussing what I know about my own religion freely .
You described those who do believe with short tempered? How come ?
You should describe those who have no proofs for their own thoughts with short tempered.
The universe can't suit the two , atheist and believer .One of them is right and the other has no proofs.
Hi; I think my feeling is that when you say 'they' you are saying not me... So how open is the conversation. I have great respect for all religions, beliefs and spiritualities. As an atheist myself my belief is based wholly on fact. There is an abundance of evidence. Religion is based on 'faith' a belief system not sustained by fact. I like to view the concept of 'God' as a sense of humanity that links us all as humanbeings.
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